I'm sorry to hear about your problems. Did your contract state you only got the binary? The binary is not the readable code, but your wording suggests it is. The binary is the app itself, which you only have an ad hoc version of. Just want to make sure they're not getting you on a technicality.
My contract states that I own all intellectual property developed for me and even has a non compete. Thanks for your concern. It does help. I may have to pull this thread in case there's a law suit.
I've read your posts and watched your videos and I feel your plight. Please don't get the idea most devs are crooks. Indeed there are crooks in the US and abroad - there are also clients looking to rip off devs - crime is indeed totally without prejudice.
I am not one who feels you must develop the app yourself, as coding certainly is not for everyone - just like there are many things I'm not naturally good at or have any desire to learn. However and this applies to hiring anyone - you must take great care in who you trust to get the job done. I do get the feeling you might have gotten a bit desperate to get someone working on your problem. I'm sure in retrospect and hindsight is 20-20 but the line about starting a new account certainly should throw up red flags.
Also one has to take in consideration once you offshore something you are dealing in with the laws, culture, and history of both countries. These expectations and perceptions sometimes blow up even if one is not trying to cheat the other (I am not saying that is the case here - as if everything is true - they definitely acted in bad faith). This is not the first story I've heard of an offshore company planning to produce a copy of something they just worked - completely ignoring IP and non-competes.
I wish you good luck on any actions against them - but more I wish that you do keep chasing your dreams - with perhaps some hard won knowledge. I suggest asking for at a minimum weekly snapshot of the SOURCE code - not a binary.
I've read your posts and watched your videos and I feel your plight. Please don't get the idea most devs are crooks. Indeed there are crooks in the US and abroad - there are also clients looking to rip off devs - crime is indeed totally without prejudice.
I am not one who feels you must develop the app yourself, as coding certainly is not for everyone - just like there are many things I'm not naturally good at or have any desire to learn. However and this applies to hiring anyone - you must take great care in who you trust to get the job done. I do get the feeling you might have gotten a bit desperate to get someone working on your problem. I'm sure in retrospect and hindsight is 20-20 but the line about starting a new account certainly should throw up red flags.
Also one has to take in consideration once you offshore something you are dealing in with the laws, culture, and history of both countries. These expectations and perceptions sometimes blow up even if one is not trying to cheat the other (I am not saying that is the case here - as if everything is true - they definitely acted in bad faith). This is not the first story I've heard of an offshore company planning to produce a copy of something they just worked - completely ignoring IP and non-competes.
I wish you good luck on any actions against them - but more I wish that you do keep chasing your dreams - with perhaps some hard won knowledge. I suggest asking for at a minimum weekly snapshot of the SOURCE code - not a binary.
First of all, thank you for your advise. I guess I don't know the difference between source and binary.
I did by the way do tons of due diligence. I spent over a year trying to hire different US companies. Granted technology has changed greatly since then but I was getting quotes of $2M - $1.5M. There was no way I could afford that even with a totally stripped down version of the website. That's when I decided to outsource through a third party thinking that 3rd party would keep me relatively safe. As far as the hindsight of a red flag for setting up a new account, they did it within hours. I was relying on the introduction of the 3rd party and their good name to keep me safe. Big mistake!
That is a terrible story - I am sorry that happened to you.
Some reactions to posters saying that you should have "just learned it yourself"... Seriously, it is not realistic for most people to just learn how to write computer code nor is it a good use of a business owner's time. Also, a truly successful app needs to be well thought out, designed and marketed and that is a lot to do if you need to spend a solid 2.5 months coding when you never even programmed before.
I do know some people who have successfully used e-lance and rent-a-coder so here is some (possibly unwanted) advice for outsourcing I keep hearing:
- start small: you should be able to get a small scale app written for as little as $5,000 if you are off-shoring
- - test a company before investing a ton of money
- clearly spell out that you expect the source code and make sure that you have the source code before you release funds for any milestones.
- you can require that they use a private source code repository and expect them to check in what they did each nite - that way have have a history of there work
- - if you don't know how to do this try to find a local consultant who can help you set it up and show you how to do it
- be suspicious of any iPhone project where the company says it is going to take longer than 2 months (big one)
- try to partner with a developer locally (in terms of equity sharing) and make sure they are in control of the product.
I think what strikes me most about this story is how important it is to stay in control your IP - and by association your source code. As the poster said you have no real recourse legally (expensive for a startup/lifestyle business to try and fight legal battles). So, your recourse must be technical at this point and stay in control of your IP.
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I think what strikes me most about this story is how important it is to stay in control your IP - and by association your source code. As the poster said you have no real recourse legally (expensive for a startup/lifestyle business to try and fight legal battles). So, your recourse must be technical at this point and stay in control of your IP.
In addition to that, what is also useful is to not give all of the job to just one company. That way, each is only building a piece and so will not have enough to sink you if they decide to be unscrupulous.
Just another reason why it pays to take the time to learn the SDK and develop the app yourself. No outsourced entity is going to give our app the time and attention that it deserves. Their sole motivation is money and not the true success of your app.
...my 2 cents...
c0der:
To be fair, do you design your own apps?
Or- you think coding is more important? Good luck selling ugly apps.
And to SusanSoiree: I am so sorry for what you've been through. I hope (and I know it's hard) that you can be proud of using your obviously above-average intelligence and a lot of moxie to go after a dream that most wouldn't have the courage to attempt.
This shouldn't have happened, and freelance developers are hired all the time, every day, in the exact same manner as yours were, without the devastating results.
I hope you can breathe, sleep and carry on with perseverance and strength throughout this ordeal. Life isn't fair so please don't torture yourself, it's not worth it.
Wish you all the best and that those awful scoundrels receive their just desserts!
Hi Susan please contact me asap.
I have been defrauded by the same company.
It changed its name recently.
It is still on Elance and it is defrauding many people.
Someone revealed to me the way they work yesterday.
PLEASE CONTACT ME ASAP.
Hi Susan please contact me asap.
I have been defrauded by the same company.
It changed its name recently.
It is still on Elance and it is defrauding many people.
Someone revealed to me the way they work yesterday.
PLEASE CONTACT ME ASAP.
I have been defrauded by the same company
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