Need better graphics but don't have tons of $$. Options??
So I recently released a game to the app store and I'm looking for some advice for my situation and what to do. My game is about 25 to 30 mb in size, and the content/gameplay is pretty good in my opinion compared to the competition, but the graphics seriously need work before I go ahead and promote it fully.
So far I've done all the graphics by myself, but I'm not a professional graphic designer and have limited time available. The problem is while I'd love to hire someone full time to work on this, I don't have cash to pay someones salary an hourly or even commission basis. And I don't know any designers through personal connections who are able to devote time and work for a % with me on this.
I know that if you don't have money, you don't have money, but artwork is *really* something worth investing in.
The way it usually works with most people, they see your app on the list (thus the need for a very good icon), they select it for further viewing, they read first paragraph of the description and jump to screenshots. I'm not saying that EVERYONE does that, but a big chunk of the population. Good art will very often get you the customer that wouldn't be interested otherwise.
I also didn't have cash for Dragon Lords art, but seeing the difference of quality between artists working from me I found the money, ditched the low-cost-crap-quality art and did everything the right way. It was worth it, though it did give me sleepless nights before the game launched, wondering if I'm going to have to sell my kidney.
We've made a few deals where we redid graphics/interface in exchange for a % of profits. Try a deal like that if you think it's worth it (you could PM me if you'd like)
I know that if you don't have money, you don't have money, but artwork is *really* something worth investing in.
The way it usually works with most people, they see your app on the list (thus the need for a very good icon), they select it for further viewing, they read first paragraph of the description and jump to screenshots. I'm not saying that EVERYONE does that, but a big chunk of the population. Good art will very often get you the customer that wouldn't be interested otherwise.
I also didn't have cash for Dragon Lords art, but seeing the difference of quality between artists working from me I found the money, ditched the low-cost-crap-quality art and did everything the right way. It was worth it, though it did give me sleepless nights before the game launched, wondering if I'm going to have to sell my kidney.
I know. First impressions are so important which is why I really want to invest in it. Where did you end up finding a good graphic designer?
Also, how realistic is finding someone to work completely on a % of profits from one of those sites?
I know. First impressions are so important which is why I really want to invest in it. Where did you end up finding a good graphic designer?
Also, how realistic is finding someone to work completely on a % of profits from one of those sites?
All this input is much appreciated.
Do you have a track record of successful apps? If not, I don't think any designer worth their salt will agree to a profit share. I did profit sharing with my designer, but I already had a Top 100 paid app in the app store.
If you don't have a good designer you are bringing a knife to a gun fight. Design is the single most important differentiator in an app. Check elance, you may find some good prices, especially overseas.
Do you have a track record of successful apps? If not, I don't think any designer worth their salt will agree to a profit share. I did profit sharing with my designer, but I already had a Top 100 paid app in the app store.
If you don't have a good designer you are bringing a knife to a gun fight. Design is the single most important differentiator in an app. Check elance, you may find some good prices, especially overseas.
Nope. Just released my first one, and trying to figure out my best options at this point in time.
I know. First impressions are so important which is why I really want to invest in it. Where did you end up finding a good graphic designer?
Freelancer and Elance.
Prepare for a world of pain though, because finding a good designer is like looking for a needle in a haystack. You're best off listing a big fee for the job, that's the only way to get really good artists interested. If you post small jobs all you're going to get is art-wannabe's (at least that's my experience). Post a reasonably priced project, find a good designer, see if you're able to negotiate the price. That's what I did.
After posting few low-cost projects and sorting through dozens (I'm not kidding DOZENS!) of worthless offers I posted a high payment job, got few talented guys, found one who got passionate about my project and negotiated down his price.
I did profit sharing with my designer, but I already had a Top 100 paid app in the app store.
I'm curious, why did you do profit sharing if you already had a successful app (meaning being able to hire someone good for a flat rate)?
I'm doing profit sharing with a programming team on my next game, but that's a much bigger job that I have no hope of financing myself yet and more importantly, I want to focus on the designing gameplay bit, not managing the team, I want them to motivate themselves to get this done...
I'm curious, why did you do profit sharing if you already had a successful app (meaning being able to hire someone good for a flat rate)?
I'm doing a mix of both. I'm paying a flat rate, plus limited profit share (he gets x% up to Y. If sales never reach Y, he gets nothing). The reason I do this is so that the designer has skin in the game. A lot of good designers (including mine) have their pick of clients. The additional profit sharing incentive insures I have priority.
I personally would never do a full profit share (x% for life). If you have confidence in your idea, find some way to pony up the cash or learn it yourself. That's my perspective.
Use 99designs, elance, or odesk... You'll be glad you did. You can get some really really good designs for relatively cheap on those sites.
Designers will be fighting to do work for you on 99designs and then at the end of the day you are writing their checks so they have to listen to what you ask them to do whether they like it or not.
[quote=bignoggins;387348]...., plus limited profit share (he gets x% up to Y. If sales never reach Y, he gets nothing)..../QUOTE]
That's smart. Actually a really good idea..
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I personally would never do a full profit share (x% for life). If you have confidence in your idea, find some way to pony up the cash or learn it yourself. That's my perspective.
Usually I would agree, however in my case the offer was too good to turn down. The team I do profit sharing (50/50) is doing all the server side coding (it's going to be another MMO) and maintenance. I will provide iOS and Android clients and direct general game design. After spending 2 years coding during the night (on account of working full time during the day) I really want to get away from coding. Directing the artists and coders will be like holidays for me.
That and the fact that they are doing this for free until the game starts to earn money, I have the guarantee that they will do their best to move things along. I hired coders before and I had to use a big stick to make them finish the job. I'm not going through that again.
Oh I was referring specifically to designers and artists, who just deliver once. Profit sharing with other developers is something else entirely. I would definitely be up for that given the right opportunity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AragornSG
Usually I would agree, however in my case the offer was too good to turn down. The team I do profit sharing (50/50) is doing all the server side coding (it's going to be another MMO) and maintenance. I will provide iOS and Android clients and direct general game design. After spending 2 years coding during the night (on account of working full time during the day) I really want to get away from coding. Directing the artists and coders will be like holidays for me.
That and the fact that they are doing this for free until the game starts to earn money, I have the guarantee that they will do their best to move things along. I hired coders before and I had to use a big stick to make them finish the job. I'm not going through that again.
Freelancer and Elance.
Prepare for a world of pain though, because finding a good designer is like looking for a needle in a haystack. You're best off listing a big fee for the job, that's the only way to get really good artists interested. If you post small jobs all you're going to get is art-wannabe's (at least that's my experience). Post a reasonably priced project, find a good designer, see if you're able to negotiate the price. That's what I did.
After posting few low-cost projects and sorting through dozens (I'm not kidding DOZENS!) of worthless offers I posted a high payment job, got few talented guys, found one who got passionate about my project and negotiated down his price.
That's another problem I found. I posted a job a little while ago and didn't find anyone who I was really impressed with. I was tempted to give a project out at the time, but was reluctant as I was unsure if the person could do a job I liked. I'm sure pay by completion is pretty standard in this industry for things like this, but has anyone run into a sticky situation where they thought the art done was crap?
I'm doing a mix of both. I'm paying a flat rate, plus limited profit share (he gets x% up to Y. If sales never reach Y, he gets nothing). The reason I do this is so that the designer has skin in the game. A lot of good designers (including mine) have their pick of clients. The additional profit sharing incentive insures I have priority.
I personally would never do a full profit share (x% for life). If you have confidence in your idea, find some way to pony up the cash or learn it yourself. That's my perspective.
I like this idea, but what is a good and reasonable ratio of flat rate to maximum % earned?
Oh I was referring specifically to designers and artists, who just deliver once. Profit sharing with other developers is something else entirely. I would definitely be up for that given the right opportunity.
Well then, we have exactly the same take on this.
mer10, I've been in this situation a couple of times during my 2 years working on Dragon Lords. There are three ways to deal with it the way I see it.
One, is to work with the artist until you're happy with the result, if you're using freelancing site he will have to work with you or risk not getting paid or getting a bad review. Second way is to just cut your losses, finish the contract, use what is usable and discard the rest. Finally, the path I managed to take twice, talk to the artist, explain that you expected completely different level of quality and propose to cancel the project without payment and reviews. If you do it early in the project people tend to go for it, as the alternative is finishing the project with someone who doesn't appreciate their work AND risking a bad review in the end.
Need better graphics but don't have tons of $$. Options??
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