Advertise Mobile SDKs Books Events Forum News Social Networking Support Us
Follow @iphonedevsdk on Twitter

Interface 2, Advanced iOS
Mockup & Code Gen
($9.99)

Make your own iPhone apps
and run them live!
(free)

Pic Frame Dynamo: Photo Editing
($0.99)

Abiliator
($1.99)

Want your application or service advertised on iPhone Dev SDK?

Go Back   iPhone Dev SDK Forum > Business Forums > Business, Legal, & App Store

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-07-2010, 11:56 AM   #1 (permalink)
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 20
SLOJES is on a distinguished road
Default Stolen copyrighted material in a new app

Adot Studios, apparently a Chinese app maker affiliated with Gameloft, has blatenly stolen my copyrighted images of fishing knots from my website www.netknots.com and made an app called Fishing Knots Guide. It seems to have launched today and I have told Apple today. Does anyone know how Apple responds to copyright infringement and how long it takes? Also, I can't find any contact info for adot studio to send them a cease and desist. Isn't an email address required by Apple or is it optional? Also, I see that they made a 2nd app with my rope Knot illustrations.

Isn't Apple also liable for this illegal usage since they are selling and making money from it?

Last edited by SLOJES; 08-07-2010 at 01:53 PM.
SLOJES is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2010, 01:51 PM   #2 (permalink)
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 905
TunaNugget is on a distinguished road
Default

I'm not a lawyer, but isn't it the normal procedure to serve Apple with a DCMA takedown notice?
TunaNugget is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2010, 01:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 20
SLOJES is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TunaNugget View Post
I'm not a lawyer, but isn't it the normal procedure to serve Apple with a DCMA takedown notice?
Thank you, I am now working on that.
SLOJES is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2010, 03:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 126
inwhatworld is on a distinguished road
Default

Apple isn't very good at enforcing this. They usually forward whatever email you sent to them over the person you're accusing (including your email address and comments etc)

I would write a second letter to Apple saying that you're preparing a cease and desist letter and you need the company's mailing address / email address. Then send the cease and desist in both email and letter form. In the email write something like:

"Sent via email and postal mail"
__________________
I am a 7 year old app developer!
inwhatworld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2010, 03:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 20
SLOJES is on a distinguished road
Default

Well that's not too encouraging. I did send Apple's legal dept a DCMA takedown notice. I think they should take something like this more seriously because, unlike an ISP that hosts infringed CDMA material, they are actively profiting from the sale of my stolen material. Of course, at $0.30 an app they will make, times mediocre sales of these two apps, I could never recover legal fees to formally go after them with an attorney.

Perhaps my best bet, if Apples doesn't comply and take them down, is an expose' via one star reviews that tells buyers that the app is by a Chinese bandit that stole the illustrations and recommend they buy any other app in the category than to support this criminal behavior.
SLOJES is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2010, 11:00 AM   #6 (permalink)
Dev & World Traveler
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SF, CA
Posts: 2,151
bignoggins is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLOJES View Post
Well that's not too encouraging. I did send Apple's legal dept a DCMA takedown notice. I think they should take something like this more seriously because, unlike an ISP that hosts infringed CDMA material, they are actively profiting from the sale of my stolen material. Of course, at $0.30 an app they will make, times mediocre sales of these two apps, I could never recover legal fees to formally go after them with an attorney.

Perhaps my best bet, if Apples doesn't comply and take them down, is an expose' via one star reviews that tells buyers that the app is by a Chinese bandit that stole the illustrations and recommend they buy any other app in the category than to support this criminal behavior.
Ouch. Feel for you but I don't know of much recourse here other than to make your app definitively better. But I mean, it's a guide on tying knots. What more can you do? 1 star reviews probably won't help. I doubt most app buyers have the moral conscience to care. And even if they do, how do they know you aren't lying?

I'd say your situation is similar to piracy. My app got pirated a few weeks ago. Unless you are losing hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue, just let it go. The ROI on fighting this stuff isn't worth it. The time you spend fighting these people you could spend improving your app or making new ones. Be smart.
bignoggins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2010, 09:01 AM   #7 (permalink)
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 905
TunaNugget is on a distinguished road
Default

There's a big difference between piracy and a copyright thief. This is just one company, and its app can be shut out of the app store.

Of course, you could end up playing whack-a-mole with it if he re-submits it as a new app (and possibly under a different company name). But it's much easier to deal with than piracy.
TunaNugget is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2010, 10:45 AM   #8 (permalink)
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 20
SLOJES is on a distinguished road
Default

Yes, it would seem to me that Apple would want to move quickly to shut down an app that they are selling that is based on stolen copyright material. Apple is effectively selling stolen material at this point and by any interpretation of the law I would think that is illegal.
SLOJES is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2010, 11:42 AM   #9 (permalink)
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 143
HappyByte is on a distinguished road
Default

Apple will react on this let's say after 20-25 days and will give the seller 5 days to remove his app untill removing it in a hard way. 25-30 days are quite enough for stealing developers to take their money before the app actually goes down.
HappyByte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2010, 02:32 PM   #10 (permalink)
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 44
Blunketts_Dog is on a distinguished road
Default

Hi,

I am in a very similar position and seem to be banging my head against a brick wall with apple. Have you had any luck getting the app removed yet?

I have sent you a PM about my experience with apple so far.
Blunketts_Dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2010, 01:11 PM   #11 (permalink)
Dev & World Traveler
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SF, CA
Posts: 2,151
bignoggins is on a distinguished road
Default

Well, I've studied IP law, and copyright means nothing unless it's actively protected through litigation. Apple will not remove the app just because you say so it's your word against his.

Big corporations have legal teams to protect their copyrights. Unless you are willing to get a lawyer no one will enforce your copyright for you, the onus is on the copyright owner.
bignoggins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2010, 01:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 94
BillSmith is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyByte View Post
Apple will react on this let's say after 20-25 days and will give the seller 5 days to remove his app untill removing it in a hard way. 25-30 days are quite enough for stealing developers to take their money before the app actually goes down.
Nope, once the app terminated, the developer will not get their money and also if it is violated again 2-3 times, the account will be terminated
BillSmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2010, 01:48 PM   #13 (permalink)
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 20
SLOJES is on a distinguished road
Default

Thank you for your input. I am aware of the costs of copyright infringement litigation. However, in this case it is not my word against his, the copyrights are clearly visible on the internet and they do not belong to the offending app developer. Outside of any copyright litigation, said developer is in violation of the iPhone Developer Program License Agreement, Schedule 2, 5.1(b). Apple has every right to exercise its right of Termination in Section 7.3. Whether they do so or not is up to them, but one would hope that they would be inclined to do the right thing.
SLOJES is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2010, 03:05 PM   #14 (permalink)
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 905
TunaNugget is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mightybao View Post
Well, I've studied IP law, and copyright means nothing unless it's actively protected through litigation. Apple will not remove the app just because you say so it's your word against his.

Big corporations have legal teams to protect their copyrights. Unless you are willing to get a lawyer no one will enforce your copyright for you, the onus is on the copyright owner.
Actually, Apple has been pretty inconsistent in this regard. In some cases, Apple has pulled down apps with what seemed like pretty sparse justification and no outside lawyers involved. My own opinion is that it has less to do with IP law and more to do with how Apple feels about it on that particular day.
TunaNugget is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2010, 03:07 PM   #15 (permalink)
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 36
App Developer is on a distinguished road
Default US Copyright Office

It is a good idea to register important works at The US Copyright Office. They will store a copy of your works and that way it will be trivial to prove that you have the copyright.

You can register works also using the Internet:

U.S. Copyright Office

Please not that the site does not work with Safari. Firefox is your best bet. It seems to be optimized for Netscape (!!!)

In your case (if you have not registered them) your best bet is to make this as public as possible by contacting the media. That will usually get the attention of Apple.

Also, you can't sue anybody in China based on US copyright laws...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLOJES View Post
Thank you for your input. I am aware of the costs of copyright infringement litigation. However, in this case it is not my word against his, the copyrights are clearly visible on the internet and they do not belong to the offending app developer. Outside of any copyright litigation, said developer is in violation of the iPhone Developer Program License Agreement, Schedule 2, 5.1(b). Apple has every right to exercise its right of Termination in Section 7.3. Whether they do so or not is up to them, but one would hope that they would be inclined to do the right thing.
App Developer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2010, 07:31 PM   #16 (permalink)
Dev & World Traveler
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SF, CA
Posts: 2,151
bignoggins is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TunaNugget View Post
Actually, Apple has been pretty inconsistent in this regard. In some cases, Apple has pulled down apps with what seemed like pretty sparse justification and no outside lawyers involved. My own opinion is that it has less to do with IP law and more to do with how Apple feels about it on that particular day.
Well whatever Apple does is up to Apple. I'm saying from a legal perspective there is not much you can do if you aren't willing to litigate. It's all bark no bite.
bignoggins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2010, 11:04 PM   #17 (permalink)
Licensed Developer
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Niagara Falls, Canada
Posts: 107
hackmods is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Skype™ to hackmods
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLOJES View Post
Adot Studios, apparently a Chinese app maker affiliated with Gameloft, has blatenly stolen my copyrighted images of fishing knots from my website Best fishing knots and rope knots and made an app called Fishing Knots Guide. It seems to have launched today and I have told Apple today. Does anyone know how Apple responds to copyright infringement and how long it takes? Also, I can't find any contact info for adot studio to send them a cease and desist. Isn't an email address required by Apple or is it optional? Also, I see that they made a 2nd app with my rope Knot illustrations.

Isn't Apple also liable for this illegal usage since they are selling and making money from it?
Why dont you get someone to make the app for you? If you want I would do the app for free if you put it in the store for free
__________________
Search iTunes for Hackmods. Apps will come up.
hackmods is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2010, 11:59 PM   #18 (permalink)
Registered Member
 
headkaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 359
headkaze is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hackmods View Post
Why dont you get someone to make the app for you? If you want I would do the app for free if you put it in the store for free
Looks like he already has an iPhone App

Last edited by headkaze; 08-14-2010 at 12:04 AM.
headkaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2010, 12:03 AM   #19 (permalink)
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 282
sparkso is on a distinguished road
Default

just went to check out other apps by this app maker. They even made an app on one of the Chinese all time classic novels that there is no way they could have license for...
__________________
SolarSpark Apps
sparkso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2010, 12:53 PM   #20 (permalink)
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 20
SLOJES is on a distinguished road
Default Update

FYI, The offending apps were removed from the store as of last Sunday, meaning they had about a one week ride in the store with my stolen material. I never heard back from Apple after the initial reply that they had logged my complaint and were contacting the other developer. So I don't know if Apple took them down or forced the developer to. Anyway justice prevailed for now. Thanks for your input.
SLOJES is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
copyright

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



» Advertisements
» Online Users: 352
22 members and 330 guests
baja_yu, davejas69, dljeffery, Domele, Feldspar, habitatus, Hamood, hussain1982, ilmman, ipodphone, JamesCahall, JmacDotOrg, linkmx, mediaspree, pipposanta, QuantumDoja, revg, TimoFrageFuchs, waterkamp, Wikiboo, Yoonoo
Most users ever online was 1,387, 04-10-2012 at 04:21 AM.
» Stats
Members: 175,641
Threads: 94,106
Posts: 402,845
Top Poster: BrianSlick (7,990)
Welcome to our newest member, JmacDotOrg
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.1.0

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:44 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0