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Old 05-23-2010, 05:20 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Yet Another Blatant Ratings & Review Scam!

Ilya Suzdalnitski
Go Pedometer - #2 Health & Fitness
Flashlight™ - #19 Utilities

Documented here:
http://luminantsoftware.com/Ilya%20S...re%20Fraud.pdf

It seems pretty obvious that Apple does literally nothing to try to detect this kind of thing. Why not screw the customers and other developers?
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:20 PM   #2 (permalink)
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No such thing as review scam. it only mean your app sucks.
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:26 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I wonder, why would anybody put so much work to rat somebody out? What's wrong with people?
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:27 PM   #4 (permalink)
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he has one post, did he join just to rant?
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:28 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvkrnsky View Post
Ilya Suzdalnitski
Go Pedometer - #2 Health & Fitness
Flashlight™ - #19 Utilities

Documented here:
http://luminantsoftware.com/Ilya%20S...re%20Fraud.pdf

It seems pretty obvious that Apple does literally nothing to try to detect this kind of thing. Why not screw the customers and other developers?
Good write up, but make it a blog post. nobody wants to read a pdf.

And are you saying that in the last Australia example, he has over 80 fake accounts giving him 5 stars?? That doesn't seem very likely to me.

Your proof is not positive. Those accounts you call fake, you need to examine them, and see what other apps they have rated/commented on.

Your examination is a good start, but hardly conclusive.
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:32 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Dr. Dre, ask Appency, his client is also facing fake reviews problem that most people here seems to think does not exist.

And are you naive? You are saying that people won't go all the trouble just to remain in the Top 20???????????????????????????????????????????????? ???

ARE YOU F**CKIN SERIOS? Its the money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:04 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranjit View Post
Dr. Dre, ask Appency, his client is also facing fake reviews problem that most people here seems to think does not exist.

And are you naive? You are saying that people won't go all the trouble just to remain in the Top 20???????????????????????????????????????????????? ???

ARE YOU F**CKIN SERIOS? Its the money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


didnt u just write " there are no such things as review scams, your app just sucks "
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:06 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
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didnt u just write " there are no such things as review scams, your app just sucks "
kid, hence the eye rolling.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:59 AM   #9 (permalink)
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kid, hence the eye rolling.
really…kid
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:12 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I really can't believe that you went though such trouble to rant someone out!!

Why don't you spend your time working on your apps better?. Lots of developers (if not all) do review their own apps and ask friends to review their apps as well. Maybe the guy just has too much friends. To have fake accounts in all those countries is very very very unlikely. He will need to have credit cards hooked to those accounts in all those countries. There might be some scamming websites those days that do this but I am not aware of any.

Try to spend your time doing something useful or constructive. If you really think that this App is really harming your business then please direct your complains to Apple not here.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:15 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I really can't believe that you went though such trouble to rant someone out!!

Why don't you spend your time working on your apps better?. Lots of developers (if not all) do review their own apps and ask friends to review their apps as well. Maybe the guy just has too much friends. To have fake accounts in all those countries is very very very unlikely. He will need to have credit cards hooked to those accounts in all those countries. There might be some scamming websites those days that do this but I am not aware of any.

Try to spend your time doing something useful or constructive. If you really think that this App is really harming your business then please direct your complains to Apple not here.
Are you an idiot?
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Old 05-24-2010, 05:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Are you an idiot?
Must be if he's recommending spending more time improving one's app over researching the competition.

<edit> I just checked this app on the store....are you saying that he faked 126 5 star reviews?

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Old 05-24-2010, 06:22 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
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<edit> I just checked this app on the store....are you saying that he faked 126 5 star reviews?
I would estimate about 120. He's getting smarter about it though -- now he's adding some fake 4-star reviews to make it look slightly less obvious. It all happens within a day or two of an update, May 20th for the latest round.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvkrnsky View Post
I would estimate about 120. He's getting smarter about it though -- now he's adding some fake 4-star reviews to make it look slightly less obvious. It all happens within a day or two of an update, May 20th for the latest round.
Let's see... He's got only 16 ratings on May 20 - its' absolutely normal for high selling app on the update day. I don't see anything suspicious with "Go Pedometer". The app is in top 25 - it's IMPOSSIBLE to gain rank with ratings. Moreover if his app was junk it would be overwhelmed with bad reviews. There would be tons of 1 star ratings. Getting 16 reviews in the day of new release is absolutely normal, especially if he uses something like promodispenser (or appirator). You are claiming that he created 120 accounts in different countries (ow, wait - 120 only US accounts - multiply by hundred countries), then he posted fake 5-star reviews on his app, yet he spend 5 times more time also reviewing other apps... hmm..

What about you? You just created this account to throw some developer under the train. You don't show what are YOUR apps and why you are so upset about this dev. Moreover this dev is not the biggest abuser (compare to Brighthouse Labs) - yet you picked him for some reason.

So... what my hunch tells me (and usually it's the case with people trying to rat on other people, and I'm rarely wrong) is that you are the bad guy here. Probably you got some personal problem with this dev or you are a competitor and want to throw him under the train. That's what I think...
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:21 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dre View Post
Let's see... He's got only 16 ratings on May 20 - its' absolutely normal for high selling app on the update day. I don't see anything suspicious with "Go Pedometer". The app is in top 25 - it's IMPOSSIBLE to gain rank with ratings. Moreover if his app was junk it would be overwhelmed with bad reviews. There would be tons of 1 star ratings. Getting 16 reviews in the day of new release is absolutely normal, especially if he uses something like promodispenser (or appirator). You are claiming that he created 120 accounts in different countries (ow, wait - 120 only US accounts - multiply by hundred countries), then he posted fake 5-star reviews on his app, yet he spend 5 times more time also reviewing other apps... hmm..

What about you? You just created this account to throw some developer under the train. You don't show what are YOUR apps and why you are so upset about this dev. Moreover this dev is not the biggest abuser (compare to Brighthouse Labs) - yet you picked him for some reason.

So... what my hunch tells me (and usually it's the case with people trying to rat on other people, and I'm rarely wrong) is that you are the bad guy here. Probably you got some personal problem with this dev or you are a competitor and want to throw him under the train. That's what I think...

QFT

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Old 05-24-2010, 10:58 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I would estimate about 120. He's getting smarter about it though -- now he's adding some fake 4-star reviews to make it look slightly less obvious. It all happens within a day or two of an update, May 20th for the latest round.
No point talking to these people, tvkrnsky. They have never been in the spot. I have seen a few apps whereby it just landed on new releases, and already getting 50+ reviews of 5 stars only. And when I checked the ranking of that app, it is out of the scale.

To others:
So, no, there is no such thing as competitors bad reviews. Oh well, I just would like to say sorry in advance in case one of my bad reviews hit on one of your apps. I am sure you will think that your apps are crashing, so I should be in the clear of any accusations.
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:02 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dre View Post
Let's see... He's got only 16 ratings on May 20 - its' absolutely normal for high selling app on the update day. I don't see anything suspicious with "Go Pedometer". The app is in top 25 - it's IMPOSSIBLE to gain rank with ratings. Moreover if his app was junk it would be overwhelmed with bad reviews. There would be tons of 1 star ratings. Getting 16 reviews in the day of new release is absolutely normal, especially if he uses something like promodispenser (or appirator). You are claiming that he created 120 accounts in different countries (ow, wait - 120 only US accounts - multiply by hundred countries), then he posted fake 5-star reviews on his app, yet he spend 5 times more time also reviewing other apps... hmm..

What about you? You just created this account to throw some developer under the train. You don't show what are YOUR apps and why you are so upset about this dev. Moreover this dev is not the biggest abuser (compare to Brighthouse Labs) - yet you picked him for some reason.

So... what my hunch tells me (and usually it's the case with people trying to rat on other people, and I'm rarely wrong) is that you are the bad guy here. Probably you got some personal problem with this dev or you are a competitor and want to throw him under the train. That's what I think...
Very well said. Nothing to add.
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:07 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Let's see... He's got only 16 ratings on May 20 - its' absolutely normal for high selling app on the update day. I don't see anything suspicious with "Go Pedometer". The app is in top 25 - it's IMPOSSIBLE to gain rank with ratings. Moreover if his app was junk it would be overwhelmed with bad reviews. There would be tons of 1 star ratings. Getting 16 reviews in the day of new release is absolutely normal, especially if he uses something like promodispenser (or appirator). You are claiming that he created 120 accounts in different countries (ow, wait - 120 only US accounts - multiply by hundred countries), then he posted fake 5-star reviews on his app, yet he spend 5 times more time also reviewing other apps... hmm..

What about you? You just created this account to throw some developer under the train. You don't show what are YOUR apps and why you are so upset about this dev. Moreover this dev is not the biggest abuser (compare to Brighthouse Labs) - yet you picked him for some reason.

So... what my hunch tells me (and usually it's the case with people trying to rat on other people, and I'm rarely wrong) is that you are the bad guy here. Probably you got some personal problem with this dev or you are a competitor and want to throw him under the train. That's what I think...
I don't agree to rat out on other developers as well. But since I am victimized at the moment, I am contemplating to go the same route. These fake bad reviews/ratings hurt a lot of my sales. If it is a legit complaints, then I'm okay with it. But really, my app is pretty much flawless.
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:08 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
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....
To others:
So, no, there is no such thing as competitors bad reviews. ...
Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:14 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I don't agree to rat out on other developers as well. But since I am victimized at the moment, I am contemplating to go the same route. These fake bad reviews/ratings hurt a lot of my sales. If it is a legit complaints, then I'm okay with it. But really, my app is pretty much flawless.
what's your app?
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:15 PM   #21 (permalink)
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dre,

I am curious. So what do you think of such reviews?

On my weather app: "The app crashes when I try to load my photo" with 1 star rating.

One example for you to ponder about the existance of this review. What do you think? Do you think I should add a function to load a photo in my weather app, because the function does not exist, so how can you "try to load a photo" ?

Am I a straw man?
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:21 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Let's see... He's got only 16 ratings on May 20 - its' absolutely normal for high selling app on the update day. I don't see anything suspicious with "Go Pedometer". The app is in top 25 - it's IMPOSSIBLE to gain rank with ratings. Moreover if his app was junk it would be overwhelmed with bad reviews. There would be tons of 1 star ratings. Getting 16 reviews in the day of new release is absolutely normal, especially if he uses something like promodispenser (or appirator). You are claiming that he created 120 accounts in different countries (ow, wait - 120 only US accounts - multiply by hundred countries), then he posted fake 5-star reviews on his app, yet he spend 5 times more time also reviewing other apps... hmm..

What about you? You just created this account to throw some developer under the train. You don't show what are YOUR apps and why you are so upset about this dev. Moreover this dev is not the biggest abuser (compare to Brighthouse Labs) - yet you picked him for some reason.

So... what my hunch tells me (and usually it's the case with people trying to rat on other people, and I'm rarely wrong) is that you are the bad guy here. Probably you got some personal problem with this dev or you are a competitor and want to throw him under the train. That's what I think...
Quite a reaction there, dre. Struck a nerve, did I? Part of your business plan perhaps?

The point you miss with the 16 ratings is that it's the same 16 accounts making the ratings, always released together, always with the exact same review as before. And ratings are EXACTLY what drives rankings -- especially in competitive markets. I would think you would know that, seeing the great success of your Pentix app.

As to whether he creates the accounts himself, I don't know. Maybe he's outsourcing it:
Get Your App Reviewed on the App Store - App Reviews for iPhone and iPod touch
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:23 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
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dre,

I am curious. So what do you think of such reviews?

On my weather app: "The app crashes when I try to load my photo" with 1 star rating.

One example for you to ponder about the existance of this review. What do you think? Do you think I should add a function to load a photo in my weather app, because the function does not exist, so how can you "try to load a photo" ?

Am I a straw man?
Didn't you read the article about "straw man" logical fallacy? cmon, spend 3 minutes.. I can explain - it's when you change my position and try to disprove it, arguing against something I never said. It's like you beat a straw man, instead of the real opponent.

I never said such problem doesn't exist, I just said - this guy doesn't sound genuine and I don't believe the dev has 120 fake accounts just in the US store alone. Shill reviews to some degree always exist in ebay, in amazon. You will never sell anything serious on ebay with 0 feedback, so people "jump start" with some shill reviews. But if you are a bad seller, you would be buried under bad reviews anyway. Same with these apps, even if you put fake 50 5-star ratings on your app, the pissed of users will leave more 1-star reviews, complaing that reviews are fake.. yet it's not the case with "go poedometer" app.
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:24 PM   #24 (permalink)
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SURELY THERE IS SUCH SERVICES. No insane developer would do it by himself.
And knowing the price of sitting on the top 20 position, one would gladly fork out 10% just to have that service.

I think Apple need to eliminate ratings altogether, and rejects scam apps.
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:26 PM   #25 (permalink)
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dre, can I have a promocode for your Pentix app?
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