Inside info: Apple just shot itself! Us too!

loobian · 11-06-2009, 01:12 PM

Hi guys,

I posted it on our site:
Cramzy.com

So, what do we do now? Go to Android?

- Iliya

scotopia · 11-06-2009, 01:18 PM

Lol; beat you to it: Dark Tidings - Updates may not appear on release date list anymore.

Btw, where is it "confirmed" in that article?

loobian · 11-06-2009, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotopia

Lol; beat you to it: Dark Tidings - Updates may not appear on release date list anymore.

Btw, where is it "confirmed" in that article?

As I mentioned in the article- I spoke to a guy at Apple who's relatively high in the hierarchy and he told me they did that change.

scotopia · 11-06-2009, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loobian

As I mentioned in the article- I spoke to a guy at Apple who's relatively high in the hierarchy and he told me they did that change.

Oh so he expressly stated it. Anyway you can pump your mystery source for info as to if this just part of a multi-staged plan? I would really like it if they were going to make a "recently updated" list as well...then this would actually be a good thing overall; if not, death.

loobian · 11-06-2009, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotopia

Oh so he expressly stated it. Anyway you can pump your mystery source for info as to if this just part of a multi-staged plan? I would really like it if they were going to make a "recently updated" list as well...then this would actually be a good thing overall; if not, death.

I cannot disclose the name of the guy, sorry. But just wait and see I was right.
About the "Recently updated" section- I asked the same question. He told me such a section won't be created

Picoman · 11-06-2009, 01:25 PM

Guys, dont freak out. Sure it sucks, but remember you still get 50 Promo codes per Update. If used correctly you should get more visibility that way. Being on the new releases section should be for new releases! Lets hope they add a New Updates section to counter that tho.

scotopia · 11-06-2009, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loobian

About the "Recently updated" section-He told me such a section won't be created

BUURNED; I hope your source is wrong!

loobian · 11-06-2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotopia

BUURNED; I hope your source is wrong!

Yeah me too. I hope Steve Jobs is actually a woman, too.

Sinecure Industries · 11-06-2009, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Picoman

Guys, dont freak out. Sure it sucks, but remember you still get 50 Promo codes per Update. If used correctly you should get more visibility that way. Being on the new releases section should be for new releases! Lets hope they add a New Updates section to counter that tho.

I agree, a lot of people were gaming the system to get their app in the new release section week after week.

scotopia · 11-06-2009, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinecure Industries

I agree, a lot of people were gaming the system to get their app in the new release section week after week.

I agree; but I think we're missing a big problem here in the logic. If the goal is to decrease app store clutter this will not accomplish it; because everyone will now make their updates NEW APPS instead of an update. This will lead to more clutter, not less, and a more blatantly redundant and stupid collection of apps in the app store. If this is true and I had a major update to Ninja Buddy planned; why would I release it as an update; when I could release SUPER Shinobi Buddy!! See what I mean?

Tambourin · 11-06-2009, 01:40 PM

the good part of the story is that new apps now get alot more visibility. They'll not be burried anymore under hundreds of updates.

on the other side updates with feature adds make no sense anymore.
Perhaps the solution will be in-app purchase.

Appency · 11-06-2009, 01:45 PM

I dont really consider that gaming the system.. it keeps developers actively involved in their products, and updating them with new and interesting content. If their content hasnt changed enough, maybe then they should not be allowed to submit an update. All in all, I dont see this as a good change for the store.

scotopia · 11-06-2009, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Appency

I dont really consider that gaming the system.. it keeps developers actively involved in their products, and updating them with new and interesting content. If their content hasnt changed enough, maybe then they should not be allowed to submit an update. All in all, I dont see this as a good change for the store.

Yes; I think rewarding content filled updates is a good thing too; but developers were also gaming the system as well.

bjano · 11-06-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Appency

it keeps developers actively involved in their products, and updating them with new and interesting content.

Strange to read this from an "appstore marketing expert". Anyone keeping a close eye on the new releases list knows that most (90%) of the updates don't really contain anything new and useful, their only purpose is to get the bump in sales and ranking.

This is bad for users as they have a hard time finding new and interesting stuff, and bad for developers as it is almost impossible to introduce a new app to the store. For example my last app (Symbolic Calculator) started on the third page of the release list because "developers are actively involved in their products". I am not complaining as eventually it got into category top100, but it must suck when someone has a really polished app which isn't getting much hits by search, but would get into top100 if it had a few days on the new releases list.

But I agree, a "newly updated" list wouldn't go amiss.

TunaNugget · 11-06-2009, 02:05 PM

The only difference is that instead of gaming the list with new updates, developers will game it with new apps.

Oh, and as I posted on the other thread, you don't have to worry if your app is crap, because you don't have to compete against established apps that have good reviews. None of the apps on the new releases list will have reviews.

happymondays · 11-06-2009, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjano

This is bad for users as they have a hard time finding new and interesting stuff, and bad for developers as it is almost impossible to introduce a new app to the store.

This is not entirely true... Not only your app is closed out from the updates, all of them...

See, the benefit of playing with frequent updates was to gain visibility for your app, and reach a position on any top lists which will provide you enough new sales to stay on the list... Rinse and repeat until it is a self sustaining mechanism. So far, frequent updates helped your app to climb that list since all downloaded update counted toward your hourly sales. Meaning, you were competing with the apps doing the same trick.

What's changed now? You have only the actual release date to gain enough momentum for your app. Good news: your app will be on release-date top lists for longer, since updated apps eliminated from that list.

Who gain with this change? Anyone who creats a new quality app which will be picked up by buyers / Apple editors during the intro period.

Who loose? Developers who considered frequent updates as marketing technique. No biggie.

TunaNugget · 11-06-2009, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by happymondays

Who gain with this change? Anyone who creats a new quality app which will be picked up by buyers / Apple editors during the intro period.

How will the buyers know that you have a quality app?

WRXFlyer · 11-06-2009, 02:26 PM

Bad news: It will be increasingly hard for small developers to sustain themselves on the app store as the new releases section was really the only form of marketing that was effective and affordable. Thus, many developers will probably leave the format as the incentive to release updated apps will be greatly diminished.

Good news: It should only take 2-3 days to get apps reviewed since there will be much fewer developers who stick around and those who are left will never update their apps any longer.

happymondays · 11-06-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TunaNugget

How will the buyers know that you have a quality app?

Obviously a 'quality app' does not mean some cr@p updated on weekly basis with various reasons like 'bug fixed' or 'another blue pixel changed to yellow' or does it?

Nothing changed in that regard. People buy your app to try it out based on catchy icon, screen shots or because somebody told them about your app. If they like it they will give you a positive feedback.

VMan · 11-06-2009, 02:34 PM

Apple will probably be happy to see the current 100k apps rise to 200k even sooner now. I'm sure they want to defend their lead over Android in sheer app numbers.

I just wish Apple would make it easier for users to search for apps. More categories, modified keyword/search system with more adv search criteria, maybe new lists based on different criteria, etc etc.

TunaNugget · 11-06-2009, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by happymondays

Obviously a 'quality app' does not mean some cr@p updated on weekly basis with various reasons like 'bug fixed' or 'another blue pixel changed to yellow' or does it?

Nothing changed in that regard. People buy your app to try it out based on catchy icon, screen shots or because somebody told them about your app. If they like it they will give you a positive feedback.

But nobody will see the positive feedback, because by the time any number of users have reviewed your app (and that takes a long, long time), your app won't be visible anymore. It will have been buried in an avalanche of crappy, buggy new apps with pretty icons.

happymondays · 11-06-2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TunaNugget

But nobody will see the positive feedback, because by the time any number of users have reviewed your app (and that takes a long, long time), your app won't be visible anymore. It will have been buried in an avalanche of crappy, buggy new apps with pretty icons.

Quite the opposite. Your new app will have more time to gain reviews. Actualy this change is a cure for the problem you just mentioned. I think it is easier to come up with a reason for an update than to make a new app. There will be exceptions, but in generally speaking it will stop the unnecessary flood of updates. (Sadly, I never gained any benefit from the update trick. I just suffered its side effects... perhaps this is why I don't see this change as the end of the world)

vbovio · 11-06-2009, 03:04 PM

I think this is a good change.

can anyone confirm if a recent updated app did not went to the top of the new releases list ?

VMan · 11-06-2009, 03:08 PM

If you check the App Store, all the apps listed in the newly release lists from Nov 5 are version 1.0 only.

scotopia · 11-06-2009, 03:27 PM

This discussion is all well and good; but I think the issue I raised earlier needs to be addressed, because it undermines most of the other points here: "we're missing a big problem here in the logic. If the goal is to decrease app store clutter this will not accomplish it; because everyone will now make their updates NEW APPS instead of an update. This will lead to more clutter, not less, and a more blatantly redundant and stupid collection of apps in the app store. "