How much...?

SillyRabbit · 07-03-2009, 10:26 PM

I'm an experienced Photoshop artist and I'm looking to broaden my services to the app store. So I have a couple of question that you developers might have answers to.

If I design an app store icon, what percentage of income is a reasonable amount?

If I design backgrounds for an app, what percentage of the income would be reasonable to ask of?

And I guess this goes for like 3D graphics and anything else. Thanks,

SillyRabbit

Delirium · 07-04-2009, 12:23 AM

I think it'll be very difficult for you to find any developer that will give you a percentage of income for just doing an icon, unless they have zero budget to begin with. Doing all the art for an app raises your chances considerably of getting a percentage. But generally, if you're dealing with a dev that is already somewhat established, you're probably going to be paid a flat fee, or by the hour.

**mr-sk** · 07-04-2009, 09:51 AM

What Delirium said I think is correct - I'm not really going to be willing to give a GD a % of revenue when my app could take a month of every day after work development, and you can finish your graphics in a weekend (icon & splash screen & 512x512 icon & file formatted screen shots).

Now, if your doing all the assets for a game, that's another story. Games are very art asset heavy vs a utility app (typically) so in that case you could possibly negotiate for a % if the developer doesn't have a budget.

In terms of calculating your %, decide on your hourly rate * time to complete (your total cost). Then you and the developer would have to estimate what sales would be (heh, good luck) and then calculate some sort of %. That's one method.

There is no silver bullet to this question - it totally depends on the time it takes you to complete the artwork, plus the time the developer takes to complete the app, plus the projected sales.

Cash is king dood, just get paid upfront. If the app is successful and you did good artwork, you can charge them more next time and I'm sure you'll have repeat business from the developer, because as everyone knows, good, dependable contract work (and workers) is hard to find.

Good luck!

MattjDrake · 07-04-2009, 10:04 AM

In general you will not get anyone to agree to pay a % of income from an app for doing the icon. First off - that is practically impossible to track using the tools that Apple gives businesses (if they have more than one app on the store). Second, who wants to have that kind of string attached to their business because of one component that went into the product?

If you are just looking to serve the developer market, then you will end up settling for a flat fee or hourly rate. I generally pay $250 for the icon (both sizes).

The only other option is if you want to team up with a programmer in terms of starting a company. That would make you a partner with an equity share in the business. So, you would probably work with one product (or suite) and I imagine that you would be designing it as the thing gets updated. You would do this for "stake" in a company. But, that is a big commitment.

SillyRabbit · 07-04-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattjDrake

In general you will not get anyone to agree to pay a % of income from an app for doing the icon. First off - that is practically impossible to track using the tools that Apple gives businesses (if they have more than one app on the store). Second, who wants to have that kind of string attached to their business because of one component that went into the product?

If you are just looking to serve the developer market, then you will end up settling for a flat fee or hourly rate. I generally pay $250 for the icon (both sizes).

The only other option is if you want to team up with a programmer in terms of starting a company. That would make you a partner with an equity share in the business. So, you would probably work with one product (or suite) and I imagine that you would be designing it as the thing gets updated. You would do this for "stake" in a company. But, that is a big commitment.

Wow, I didn't expect icons to be that high. I thought maybe 50 bucks or so would be good lol. But thanks for all of the information guys. This has been really helpful. When I get back from a course in New York City, I'll definitely start to discuss things like these with others on the forums. Thanks again.

Delirium · 07-04-2009, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SillyRabbit

Wow, I didn't expect icons to be that high. I thought maybe 50 bucks or so would be good lol. But thanks for all of the information guys. This has been really helpful. When I get back from a course in New York City, I'll definitely start to discuss things like these with others on the forums. Thanks again.

I think you're going to get a wide range of prices for an icon. There's people with no budget, who would only pay $50 or less. But there are also people who would pay 10x that amount, as they already have a few hits, and know the importance of a good icon, and know they can make the money back very quickly.

johnqh · 07-04-2009, 12:39 PM

Think of it from another angle.....

If you have a concept, and you design the icon and graphics, maybe you can give a developer a % of the income for him to develop it.

SillyRabbit · 07-04-2009, 09:00 PM

Hmm, thanks for that Delirium. What you said makes a lot of sense. I geuss I'll just have to see!

Fabulous · 07-07-2009, 01:19 AM

what if you hire a developer to make an icon for you, but you don't like it? Do you have to pay him extra or pay him regardless for his efforts?

**mr-sk** · 07-07-2009, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabulous

what if you hire a developer to make an icon for you, but you don't like it? Do you have to pay him extra or pay him regardless for his efforts?

Typically, you should give the designer some direction at the start - maybe some hand sketched images, verbal description, whatever. They need some guidance.

You should also work into the agreement that they will show you their work often, so you can shape the process. Don't let the designer dissapear for a week and then show you the finished icon. Chances are you won't like it.

Have a process like (say a week dev time):
1. Start design with guidance from dev
2. 2-3 days show progress
3. designer reworks design
4. 1-2 days show progress
5. designer reworks design - delivers some nearly finished graphics to load into application.
6. Finalizes graphics, fileformats, etc.

The designer needs to get paid for their efforts, even if you don't like the finished product. That's why you review early and often. If the designer is really messing it up, you pay them for their hours (only a few if you review early and often) and move onto someone else.

Nothing is going to ruin your chances of finding good designers, than if you get a reputation as not paying.

- sk

SillyRabbit · 07-14-2009, 04:22 PM

So I'm finally gonna go up with this and start emailing some developers. So i need a 512x512 version and a mini? What's the size of the mini?

-Ben

**Kalimba** · 07-14-2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SillyRabbit

So I'm finally gonna go up with this and start emailing some developers. So i need a 512x512 version and a mini? What's the size of the mini?

-Ben

The app icons are 57x57, but, seriously... you're ready to start providing this service and you don't (or didn't) know the size of the final product...

SillyRabbit · 07-14-2009, 04:30 PM

That's not a big issue. It's my skills. I'll be fine and I've made many icons for Youtube and other sites that are within 10 pixles of that measurement. I wanted the EXACT measurements for best feedback from the client.

-Ben

Stitch · 07-15-2009, 02:19 AM

Ben,

I believe I received your Marketing email last night.

The mail itself was actually quite good but I think you let yourself down slightly on the example images:

Are you aware that Apple applies rounded corners to the image. This would make the first one very hard to read. (something to bear in mind).

In case you don't know, Apple also apply the Gloss and Bevel for you. So your image can just be a flat file.
Note: Developers can turn this OFF and use their own Gloss like you have applied if preferred.

In my opinion the last one just doesn't "jump-off-the-screen". The whole thing seems a little dark. Just browse the App Store. It's full of bright colourful eye catching Icons.

Hope some of this information helps.

ZunePod · 07-15-2009, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattjDrake

In general you will not get anyone to agree to pay a % of income from an app for doing the icon. First off - that is practically impossible to track using the tools that Apple gives businesses (if they have more than one app on the store). Second, who wants to have that kind of string attached to their business because of one component that went into the product?

If you are just looking to serve the developer market, then you will end up settling for a flat fee or hourly rate. I generally pay $250 for the icon (both sizes).

The only other option is if you want to team up with a programmer in terms of starting a company. That would make you a partner with an equity share in the business. So, you would probably work with one product (or suite) and I imagine that you would be designing it as the thing gets updated. You would do this for "stake" in a company. But, that is a big commitment.

Excuse me $250?

SillyRabbit · 07-15-2009, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stitch

Ben,

I believe I received your Marketing email last night.

The mail itself was actually quite good but I think you let yourself down slightly on the example images:

Are you aware that Apple applies rounded corners to the image. This would make the first one very hard to read. (something to bear in mind).

In case you don't know, Apple also apply the Gloss and Bevel for you. So your image can just be a flat file.
Note: Developers can turn this OFF and use their own Gloss like you have applied if preferred.

In my opinion the last one just doesn't "jump-off-the-screen". The whole thing seems a little dark. Just browse the App Store. It's full of bright colourful eye catching Icons.

Hope some of this information helps.

Wow, that's funny lol.

I am aware of the rounded edges and the shine. I just put those in there to show the others I emailed what it would look like, just advertising.

Yeah, I was just trying to think of something quick and I came up with that little logo type thing. It's not really "jump-off-the-screen" but it definitely is more complicated than the other example. I guess if I get some replies I'll supply them with some more examples, better examples.

If you'd like to talk more, but it doesn't sound like it, just email me back.

Thanks for this response, I'm glad someone got it and was willing to contact me.

-Ben

MattjDrake · 07-15-2009, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Excuse me $250?

@ZunePod - Yes, I've paid between $200-$250 for icon designs using 99Designs.com. It is the one thing users see to grab their attention so I try to invest a little bit into this. Good designers are valuable and $200 is not a lot of money especially considering they make changes for your and in general follow the extensive process the previous poster has described.

I have used places like iStockPhoto.com to get cheap artwork for icons and if you are broke you could always try that. That will only set you back $1-$20.

But, in general I think designers have a valuable skill (just like programmers) that is worth investing in.

ZunePod · 07-15-2009, 09:44 AM

WOW!. I thought that being a dev was gonna bring in lots, but $250 a pop for about 30 minutes work, I gotta get into this.

SillyRabbit · 07-15-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZunePod

WOW!. I thought that being a dev was gonna bring in lots, but $250 a pop for about 30 minutes work, I gotta get into this.

My thoughts exactly

wuf810 · 07-15-2009, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SillyRabbit

My thoughts exactly

except it will and should take a lot longer than 30 minutes. its one thing having the skills to do the artwork but what I want from a designer is ideas, feedback and understanding of what I'm after and the ability to re-direct when I'm wrong. Lot more than 30 minutes - maybe 8 hours minimum. Therefore $250/8 is is only $30 p.h.

SillyRabbit · 07-15-2009, 07:46 PM

Right, I don't think he was saying 30 minutes of work, literally.

I would spend MUCH more tme discussing with the client and reivising before being done and done. To get a rough cut down would take around that time.

jarson · 08-03-2009, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattjDrake

I have used places like iStockPhoto.com to get cheap artwork for icons and if you are broke you could always try that. That will only set you back $1-$20.

Be aware that most of the cheap royalty-free photo sites have differing licensing requirements for software. The cheap prices are for print and web use. For software, you usually have to get an extended or electronic license that is up to 75x the cost of a small web image. If your app gets popular or lots of attention, you run the risk of legal trouble.

Established designers know this and will charge accordingly.

andy65 · 08-04-2009, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SillyRabbit

Wow, that's funny lol.

I am aware of the rounded edges and the shine. I just put those in there to show the others I emailed what it would look like, just advertising.

Yeah, I was just trying to think of something quick and I came up with that little logo type thing. It's not really "jump-off-the-screen" but it definitely is more complicated than the other example. I guess if I get some replies I'll supply them with some more examples, better examples.

If you'd like to talk more, but it doesn't sound like it, just email me back.

Thanks for this response, I'm glad someone got it and was willing to contact me.

-Ben

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I just thought this might help you, some tips for iPhone app icons: Tips for iPhone App Icon Design

~Andy