Fake reviews

[wuf810]

Article on the bbc website

As the promo codes only work in for the US store, the best way to whether an app reviews are legitimate is to log on to another store popular store like the UK....you can very quickly work out whether the reviews are shills of not.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by johnqh

I am 100% sure that every iPhone developer (including me, and YOU) have put in a good review for his own app.

Wrong, the number is most likely much lower than 100% (I'd put it around 60-70%). I for one never reviewed my app, if you have a quality product people will leave good reviews.

[specialk]

Originally Posted by davek

I'll take that as a bet if you like, you would lose. There are some of us who haven't added a review for their own apps as we see it as too unethical.

Absolutely correct. Thanks for beating me to it

[johnqh]

Originally Posted by davek

Giving out promo codes isn't to get favourable reviews, it is to provide a copy of your app so people can review it, or maybe you want to give free copies to friends/family. Giving the codes out for reviewers you may want a favourable one, but it isn't the purpose. The purpose is obtaining a review from a magazine, website so people will know about your app and what it is like, or of course just using promo codes to spread awareness by giving codes away on forums etc.

You really believe that?

Right, 50,000 apps, 50 codes for magazines to review, so there should be 2,500,000 review articles.

Seriously, magazines, newspapers, or other seriously online publications do not mind spending $1 (or even $30) on your app.

The best you can get with the promo code are some blogs, and giving them for review on blog is no different from giving out code to friend and families, or random users and ask for positive review, or write the review yourself. The review is influenced.

The only objective review is from real paying users whom you had no communication whatsoever. If you used promo code, it is tinted.

Be real.

[mpatric]

Hey vivianaranha, I see you've put all your apps back up.

Are you really expecting to sell Lemi for $99.99 or are you hoping a few users will misread it as $0.99 and buy it??

I guess it's a case of: if one trick doesn't work so well try another one.

[johnqh]

Originally Posted by mpatric

Hey vivianaranha, I see you've put all your apps back up.

Are you really expecting to sell Lemi for $99.99 or are you hoping a few users will misread it as $0.99 and buy it??

I guess it's a case of: if one trick doesn't work so well try another one.

No no no, he wants to scare off buyers so that he can maintain the perfect 5-start rating!

[ataranlen]

For Greeble, We actuallty bought the game for our iPhones etc. I feel that while it is excessive what the TS described, but as a Gamer, I enjoy playing the games we make. My boss and I are in competition for the highscore for our game. Last checked, I beat his 13k with my 14k. Since I paid 3$ for a game I made, I felt entitled to write a review.

[davek]

Originally Posted by johnqh

You really believe that?

Right, 50,000 apps, 50 codes for magazines to review, so there should be 2,500,000 review articles.

Seriously, magazines, newspapers, or other seriously online publications do not mind spending $1 (or even $30) on your app.

The best you can get with the promo code are some blogs, and giving them for review on blog is no different from giving out code to friend and families, or random users and ask for positive review, or write the review yourself. The review is influenced.

The only objective review is from real paying users whom you had no communication whatsoever. If you used promo code, it is tinted.

Be real.

Yes I do believe that, but I also understand there are far too many unscrupulous individuals such as yourself who think they are a way to mislead people by providing fake reviews. No there shouldn't be 2.5 million reviews, why? because not all codes get distributed, and not all codes get used.

Giving codes on a blog is very different, the people who pick them up are (or probably aren't) your friends and family and so do not have a direct connect to you, therefore should feel no obligation to write you a glowing 5 star review.

[davek]

Originally Posted by ataranlen

For Greeble, We actuallty bought the game for our iPhones etc. I feel that while it is excessive what the TS described, but as a Gamer, I enjoy playing the games we make. My boss and I are in competition for the highscore for our game. Last checked, I beat his 13k with my 14k. Since I paid 3$ for a game I made, I felt entitled to write a review.

You bought the game so you could leave a review for your own app, no other reason, not because you enjoy it. As it is your app there is/was nothing preventing you from just installing it on your own devices anyway, either with them as registered development devices, or via ad hoc.

Nice ad BTW

[ataranlen]

Originally Posted by davek

You bought the game so you could leave a review for your own app, no other reason, not because you enjoy it. As it is your app there is/was nothing preventing you from just installing it on your own devices anyway, either with them as registered development devices, or via ad hoc.

Nice ad BTW

Yah, true, We did buy it to leave a review, But its still a little different than using the promo codes.

[johnqh]

Originally Posted by davek

Yes I do believe that, but I also understand there are far too many unscrupulous individuals such as yourself who think they are a way to mislead people by providing fake reviews.

davek, you have no idea what I do. Personal attack is a show of weakness in your argument.

And your post only shows lack of experience in the biz.

When you get an app with reasonable success, you will see
1. Copycats (One of my app had more than a dozen copycats).
2. Negative reviews from those copycat developers.

And trust me, you will spot the fake negative reviews immediately.

And please trust me again, when you see those negative reviews from competitors, you WILL post a positive reviews in response.

I am not saying that you should post 30 reviews for yourself, because it is so easy to spot that anyone with half a brain can tell it is fake.

But don't get bother by those fake positives. It has ZERO impact on your app.

If you get bothers by vivianaranha, you probably will get a heart attack when you see a fake negative from your competitor.

If you haven't seen that, well, get prepared because it will happen if you have an unique and successful app.

[johnqh]

Originally Posted by ataranlen

Yah, true, We did buy it to leave a review, But its still a little different than using the promo codes.

So you spend 90 cents on your own app to write a review (Paying Apple $3, but you get $2.10 cents back from Apple).

[ataranlen]

Originally Posted by johnqh

So you spend 90 cents on your own app to write a review (Paying Apple $3, but you get $2.10 cents back from Apple).

Thats right, we did it the stupid way

[johnqh]

Originally Posted by ataranlen

Thats right, we did it the stupid way

Actually I saw no problem with that, but really, is there a difference between 90 cents and 0 cents?

[davek]

Originally Posted by johnqh

davek, you have no idea what I do. Personal attack is a show of weakness in your argument.

And your post only shows lack of experience in the biz.

When you get an app with reasonable success, you will see
1. Copycats (One of my app had more than a dozen copycats).
2. Negative reviews from those copycat developers.

And trust me, you will spot the fake negative reviews immediately.

And please trust me again, when you see those negative reviews from competitors, you WILL post a positive reviews in response.

I am not saying that you should post 30 reviews for yourself, because it is so easy to spot that anyone with half a brain can tell it is fake.

But don't get bother by those fake positives. It has ZERO impact on your app.

If you get bothers by vivianaranha, you probably will get a heart attack when you see a fake negative from your competitor.

If you haven't seen that, well, get prepared because it will happen if you have an unique and successful app.

Personal attack? No, I stated an opinion based on your statements in this thread. Lack of experience in the biz? Sorry for the business I'm in and have been in for many years is professional software development, but thanks for the personal attack on my experience.

Copycat apps bad, negative reviews even worse, again it is down to the morals of people who do such things. Would I post positive reviews in response, probably tempted, but I would not do so, unethical.

I am also not bother by the effect fake positive/negative reviews have, what bothers me is the opinion of people in this thread, and similar threads elsewhere that there is nothing wrong with reviewing your own app. The attitude put forward, by yourself in this thread, is that everyone else is doing it so you should as well (supported by your stating 100% of devs have done so), is just flat out disgraceful.

[johnqh]

Originally Posted by davek

I am also not bother by the effect fake positive/negative reviews have, what bothers me is the opinion of people in this thread, and similar threads elsewhere that there is nothing wrong with reviewing your own app. The attitude put forward, by yourself in this thread, is that everyone else is doing it so you should as well (supported by your stating 100% of devs have done so), is just flat out disgraceful.

No, I shouldn't have said 100% of the devs have done so. I should have said 100% of the devs have done so or will do it in 1 year.

There is a difference between reality and ideal.

I was like you when I just started. I have posted on Apples forum and had a huge discussion about it. Nothing came out of it.

So, sorry to burst your bubble.

[wuf810]

Originally Posted by davek

blah blah blah unethical. blah blah blah disgraceful.

Sorry can't be bothered to quote your whole message.

The only thing unethical and disgraceful is Apple's implementation of the review system. They can prevent Promo code "buyers" from leaving reviews. They can prevent Developers from leaving reviews for their own apps. Not exactly difficult.

Personally I think a developer leaving a review is good way to point out features of app and also to answer incorrect reviews.

For example I had a review yesterday - "1 Star. Can't turn the alarm off"

Unfortunately they obviously hadn't noticed the "Alarm On/Off" button. So what can I do? Well one thing is that I can leave a review and say something like - "I like the fact that I can turn the alarm off whenever I like!"

Nothing unethical about that in my opinion....

M.

[davek]

Originally Posted by wuf810

Sorry can't be bothered to quote your whole message.

Nice.

Originally Posted by wuf810

The only thing unethical and disgraceful is Apple's implementation of the review system. They can prevent Promo code "buyers" from leaving reviews. They can prevent Developers from leaving reviews for their own apps. Not exactly difficult.

Nothing unethical about Apple's implementation, it is however lacking the ability to respond as you mention.

Yes it is difficult. Developer creates a new account, not related to their developer account, downloads app, reviews it. Impossible to prevent. Promo code downloads, yes they could do something here.

Originally Posted by wuf810

Personally I think a developer leaving a review is good way to point out features of app and also to answer incorrect reviews.

For example I had a review yesterday - "1 Star. Can't turn the alarm off"

Unfortunately they obviously hadn't noticed the "Alarm On/Off" button. So what can I do? Well one thing is that I can leave a review and say something like - "I like the fact that I can turn the alarm off whenever I like!"

The description / whats new / website is for pointing out the features, not the reviews. The inability to answer incorrect reviews / provide support to such users who have not contacted you directly, that is a different matter entirely, and unrelated to reviewing your own apps, other than the only way to do it currently is to buy/download your app and review. The review system is the wrong place to deal with this. You may disagree.

[johnqh]

Originally Posted by davek

The inability to answer incorrect reviews / provide support to such users who have not contacted you directly, that is a different matter entirely, and unrelated to reviewing your own apps, other than the only way to do it currently is to buy/download your app and review.

How is that different responding to a clueless user, or responding to competitor's fake reviews?

Are you backpedaling?

By that way, some of the clueless reviews are actually from competitors, who is spreading misinformation on purpose.

[davek]

Originally Posted by johnqh

How is that different responding to a clueless user, or responding to competitor's fake reviews?

Are you backpedaling?

By that way, some of the clueless reviews are actually from competitors, who is spreading misinformation on purpose.

It isn't my intention to back pedal no, as I stated (or at least intended to as I was typing if I didn't), the review system isn't the place for responding to a user. The lack of a way to respond is a problem I agree, but I do not think the solution is to add another "review" to reply to it.

But I'm going to stop responding on this thread because it is clear to me there are huge gaps between what I and others think is acceptable.

[UMAD]

Originally Posted by mpatric

Back in the day when users didn't need to purchase an app to review it, the App Store was awash with fake reviews. Some of the best selling apps were the worst offenders (not going to name them, they know who they are). Once Apple closed this loophole, this tailed off as it was more difficult to setup shill accounts as you actually needed to buy mutiple copies of your app with real payment information (credit card, etc) per account. But when Apple decided to provide developers with promo codes all that changed. Once again, it's dead easy to setup shill accounts using promo codes and create dozens of fake reviews. A developer by the name of Samir has created himself several dozen shill accounts and has used them to review all his sub-standard applications. From what I have seen, all of his applications are uniformly poor. I downloaded iOthello, which is one of his games and has been in the top 100 board games on the US store for 2 weeks or more now. It is easily the worst Reversi game on the App Store, yet it's the best selling thanks to his fake reviews. Furthermore, I suspect his reversi app doesn't even have any real strategy programmed into it as the moves it made appeared to be random (generally bad moves).

I'm sure most developers give themselves a a nice juicy 5 star review using their own iTunes account. However, setting up dozens of shill accounts is something quite different. Tricking unsuspecting users into buying rubbish in this way is not only immoral, but is illegal in many countries (shilling is illegal in the UK). This behaviour is disgusting. Apple should permanently ban him and other developers that do this.

The developer of 9000 Awesome facts pro (was 6500 awesome facts, which was 3000 awesome facts) Nikolay does the same. He has no less than 100+ fake accounts that he uses to review his own app.

[filjedi]

Originally Posted by johnqh

I am 100% sure that every iPhone developer (including me, and YOU) have put in a good review for his own app.

Hehe, I guess you'll also lose your bet against me. I have never left a review for my own app/s, & I never will. I believe (naively, if you must) that this is the only way that we get feedback from users. Currently, my app has 0 reviews, but has a couple of ratings for the first version. So, how would I know if users actually like the app or not? I've received the occasional comment or e-mail though, but it isn't good enough.

Giving a review for your own app is like cheating, but in effect, you're actually cheating yourself. Still, with the way the App Store is currently structured, maybe "gaming" the system is the easiest way to win.

As for promo codes, it's safe to say that it's standard practice in the industry that reviewers get free copies of items for review. The only difference I guess is that hardware reviewers usually return the items they review, while App Store reviewers cannot. So, even if they get free software, that doesn't prevent them from leaving negative reviews or feedback.

[mpatric]

Unfortunately this tactic, as dishonest as it might be, works. Vivianaranha has returned his apps to the app store and the quite awful iOthello is not only still selling, but it's moving up the charts. This is in spite of reviews that point out that all the other reviews are fake. Several developers are already doing this, and if the tactic works, expect even more to start doing it.

[mpatric]

Originally Posted by mpatric

Hey vivianaranha, I see you've put all your apps back up.

Are you really expecting to sell Lemi for $99.99 or are you hoping a few users will misread it as $0.99 and buy it??

I guess it's a case of: if one trick doesn't work so well try another one.

And if that trick doesn't work, try another..

Well done vivianaranha - calling your abysmal reversi application P*rn-o-Reversi-o-sex is really going to sell you lots of copies.

[wuf810]

Originally Posted by mpatric

And if that trick doesn't work, try another..

Well done vivianaranha - calling your abysmal reversi application P*rn-o-Reversi-o-sex is really going to sell you lots of copies.

wow vivianaranha have you got no shame/morals/brain? If you really believe in your products then contact review sites, issue press releases, give promo codes away in competitions.

That will drive people to your apps. Naming it porno something will do nothing for your sales and will just make you look like a desperate money grabbing developer. I sure you don't want that, do you?