Ideas to sue Apple for breach of contract

hrgpac · 04-30-2009, 02:16 PM

I'm very dissapointed... and frankly, I'm considering the dev effort almost lost....

Ok, let's be concise... In some threads I've seen that some people is thinking about suing Apple about the breach of contract (the famous 45 days)...

Some people are owed a lot of money, some people a couple of thousands....

Since I'm not in the USA, I don't have a clue if we can join from different countries, that's why I would like to know if this is even feasible (or Apple knew this from the beginning so, I'm screwed...)...

Threads related:
Anyone receive their iTunes financial reports for February yet?
itunes payments, banking "Please stop emailing us."

Suggestions?

kieran12 · 04-30-2009, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrgpac

I'm very dissapointed... and frankly, I'm considering the dev effort almost lost....

Ok, let's be concise... In some threads I've seen that some people is thinking about suing Apple about the breach of contract (the famous 45 days)...

Some people are owed a lot of money, some people a couple of thousands....

Since I'm not in the USA, I don't have a clue if we can join from different countries, that's why I would like to know if this is even feasible (or Apple knew this from the beginning so, I'm screwed...)...

Threads related:
Anyone receive their iTunes financial reports for February yet?
itunes payments, banking "Please stop emailing us."

Suggestions?

I'm also a non-US developer (UK) and I'm still finishing High School so I'm not sure how any if this works but if it is possible to take legal action against them I am all for it.

**kilobytedump** · 04-30-2009, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kieran12

I'm also a non-US developer (UK) and I'm still finishing High School so I'm not sure how any if this works but if it is possible to take legal action against them I am all for it.

30 something year old family man with bills to pay owed 1,000's (soon to be 10's of thousands if March is missed also) here.

ethanwa · 04-30-2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilobytedump

30 something year old family man with bills to pay owed 1,000's (soon to be 10's of thousands if March is missed also) here.

I'm with you. I am a 30 year old work-from-home Dad of 2 kids. I'm owed probably about $10k at this point ($2k from past months, $8k from the month with no payments or financial reports yet).

This is a BIG deal for me and my family.

hrgpac · 04-30-2009, 05:10 PM

Ok, I'm sending a mail to "Infante, Zumpano, Hudson & Miloch, LLC". This firm contacted me some days ago regarding some kind of missunderstanding....

The clause is the following:

Quote:

"3.5 Upon collection of any amounts from any end-user as the price for any Licensed Application
delivered to that end-user hereunder, Apple shall deduct the full amount of its commission with respect to
that Licensed Application, and any taxes collected by Apple under Section 3.2 hereof, and shall remit to
You, or issue a credit in Your favor, as the case may be, the remainder of those prices on a monthly
basis, no later than forty-five (45) days following the close of the month in which that amount was
received by Apple. Each remittance by Apple under this Section 3.5 shall be accompanied by a sales
report in sufficient detail to permit You to verify the accuracy and completeness of the amount remitted by
Apple. You hereby acknowledge and agree that Apple shall be entitled to a commission, in accordance
with this Section 3.5 on the delivery of any Licensed Application to any end-user, even if Apple is unable
to collect the price for that Licensed Application from that end-user. In the event that the purchase price
received by Apple from any end-user for any Licensed Application is in a currency other than the
remittance currency agreed between Apple and You, the purchase price for that Licensed Application
shall be converted to the remittance currency, and the amount to be remitted by Apple to You shall be
determined, in accordance with an exchange rate fixed for the Delivery Period, as reflected in Exhibit C
attached hereto. Apple may provide a means on iTunes Connect to enable You to designate a primary
currency for the bank account designated by You for receiving remittances (“Designated Currency”).
Apple may cause Apple's bank to convert all remittances in any remittance currency other than the
Designated Currency into the Designated Currency prior to remittance to You. You agree that any
resulting currency exchange differentials or fees charged by Apple's bank may be deducted from such
remittances. You remain responsible for any fees (e.g., wire transfer fees) charged by Your bank or any
intermediary banks between Your bank and Apple’s bank.”

I guess that's why they changed the financial reports stating now the withold and taxes...

ethanwa · 04-30-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrgpac

Ok, I'm sending a mail to "Infante, Zumpano, Hudson & Miloch, LLC". This firm contacted me some days ago regarding some kind of missunderstanding....

The clause is the following:

I guess that's why they changed the financial reports stating now the withold and taxes...

You know, a simple solution would be for Apple to allow a choice between "check" or "wire". That way all of these screwed up wire transfers that people are getting won't happen. A good example is the purchase of WaMu to Chase that screwed me. If I had a "send me a check every month" option, I wouldnt be in this non-payment situation because I wouldn't have had to worry about some damn SWIFT code changing on me.

E

hrgpac · 04-30-2009, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethanwa

You know, a simple solution would be for Apple to allow a choice between "check" or "wire". That way all of these screwed up wire transfers that people are getting won't happen. A good example is the purchase of WaMu to Chase that screwed me. If I had a "send me a check every month" option, I wouldnt be in this non-payment situation because I wouldn't have had to worry about some damn SWIFT code changing on me.

E

I was telling kieran12 that I observed this particular behavior a way of managing things with some people by itunes payments... It's like a technique... The fact is that they didn't pay you fully for feb as far as I know, unfortunately for you Murphy's law applied and was the movement for the bank... but this is an excuse for itunes payment to justify not paying you (because it failed!!!) and may be (hope not) posposing the payment until the next cycle...

Intruder_qc · 04-30-2009, 06:52 PM

Hmm I wonder if the technique you are mentionning is to get ride of developers they don't want (you know like people those fart apps)? I am sure all those big company like EA, GameLoft (UBISoft), NGMoco, SEGA, etc... I am sure they dont get the same bad treatment if they had I am sure they will have pull their stuff from the AppStore and sue the hell out of Apple for breach of contract.

This way of not paying some developers make them bored and finally decide to leave by themself. But Apple still didnt change their acceptance policy so they will alway look like an open place and more other small developer will come in to replace the one that left.

Hmmmm maybe I am thinking too much conspiracy thing.... who knows!

Fred

squeegeey · 04-30-2009, 08:59 PM

i'm 13, ive sold more than $1400 worth of apps, and havent got crap yet. Im afraid sooner or later Apple is just gonna keep our money.

jtara · 05-01-2009, 12:33 AM

You should get this out in the press. I've always had good luck contacting C|Net reporters. This doesn't affect me (yet), so I will leave it to those directly affected.

hrgpac · 05-01-2009, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtara

You should get this out in the press. I've always had good luck contacting C|Net reporters. This doesn't affect me (yet), so I will leave it to those directly affected.

Thank you
I sent an email to Tom Krazit (c|net) and techcrunch.com, hope they listen...

gshaviv · 05-01-2009, 01:35 AM

I'm owed $5000. Haven't been payed yet since starting selling Dec 08. Repeated emails to Apple but never got any response.

**kilobytedump** · 05-01-2009, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gshaviv

I'm owed $5000. Haven't been payed yet since starting selling Dec 08. Repeated emails to Apple but never got any response.

over 10,000 here

family, kids, mortgage etc.

Mails unanswered etc.

In dispair. No where to go. They don't reply to emails and there is no number. Can't do anything physically because I'm in the eu

samwize · 05-01-2009, 05:42 AM

Apple owes me near $2000 since Feb. Zero payment received. Zero email replies.

Warblader · 05-01-2009, 08:49 AM

Apple still owes me >$7500 since September 2008 for US ans World regions. I supplied them with a new SWIFT code and a intermediary bank they could use last month, but still nothing. Sent them tons of emails but I never got to know what is really wrong/faulty so I just tried to give them another SWIFT code that DNB (Biggest bank in Norway) uses. All other region payments have been OK....

elektrobank · 05-01-2009, 10:51 AM

You guys should definitely all get together and do something about it. It's not fair that they're not paying you. You put the time and investment in, they got their money and you can't even get a response. They can't keep doing whatever they want and not face some consequences.

Looks like this thread is already starting to get publicity though, which is good:

iPhone App Developers Threaten To Sue Apple Over Late Payments

jgregc · 05-01-2009, 11:30 AM

I think that better communication from Apple to the developers could fix this problem before it mushrooms into anything ugly.

Maybe, just maybe, after they get through the growth pains things will smooth out.

One thing is certain - the pain is on both sides...

Intruder_qc · 05-01-2009, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektrobank

Looks like this thread is already starting to get publicity though, which is good:

iPhone App Developers Threaten To Sue Apple Over Late Payments

I have tweet this story around. Everybody should do the same (they are even a nice retweet link at the end of the article). This should then reach more peoples and probably more medias.

Hopefully it should make Apple to respond somehow.

Fred

MobileDev · 05-01-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intruder_qc

I have tweet this story around. Everybody should do the same (they are even a nice retweet link at the end of the article). This should then reach more peoples and probably more medias.

Hopefully it should make Apple to respond somehow.

Fred

As Elektrobank & Fred suggest - We all need to spread the news of how Apple is screwing us and putting stress on our finances and families

to make it "important enough" to Apple to resolve it asap.

*Please take a minute now to comment on the TechCrunch story: iPhone App Developers Threaten To Sue Apple Over Late Payments (TC has a couple million readers)

Spread it on Twitter, Facebook, etc.. send it to NY Times, and to any friends in the press.

Intruder_qc · 05-01-2009, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MobileDev

*Please take a minute now to comment on the TechCrunch story: iPhone App Developers Threaten To Sue Apple Over Late Payments (TC has a couple million readers)

Wooow, I dunno if its people follow your suggestion, but they seem to already have a lot of replies to the article already.

Fred

williamapps · 05-01-2009, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilobytedump

over 10,000 here

family, kids, mortgage etc.

Mails unanswered etc.

In dispair. No where to go. They don't reply to emails and there is no number. Can't do anything physically because I'm in the eu

over 15,000 here since Dec last year

Not US citizen. Sent over 40 emails to iTSPayments@apple.com, iTSbanking@apple.com, iTSTax@apple.com, devprograms@apple.com.
The latest they replied email from itspayments@apple.com was March 6th, said Once my banking is set up and completed with the Banking department, they can issue the payment in the next months payment cycle. after that, No any reply for either inquiring banking setup status and payment email.
in despair,

Warblader · 05-01-2009, 02:34 PM

It's made it to gizmodo!

Gizmodo - iPhone Developers Threatening Apple Over Outrageous App Payment Delays - iphone developers

johnqh · 05-01-2009, 02:43 PM

First, handling payment is a common issue with import/export. The banking system is supposed to be wired together, but it doesn't work that way. Remember it is not one single system. The SWIFT is just a common interface that the banks agree to implement - it is like a web service. If something goes wrong, it could be anywhere - could be Apple, Apple's bank, or your bank.

So, the same guideline applies as doing any import/export business. Use the biggeset, more reliable, international bank you can find. Don't use some small local bank or credit union because they charge less monthly fee or offer free checking. I will bet that most of the problems happen with the receiving side, not the sending side.

Apple's problem is customer service and change management. There is no appearance way to change a bank easily, and there is no feedback.

I think Apple should simply require the developers to use assigned banks (for example, bofa, chase or citi in US), and I bet everything would be much smoother. However, I also bet a lot of people will complain about that and say "why cannot I use my community credit union?".

underthesun · 05-01-2009, 02:43 PM

Any words on lawyer costs so far? I'm willing to donate some money (there's a lot of us, we should be able to gather plenty). Let's have them lawyers spank some sense into Apple, with whacks of justice.

Intruder_qc · 05-01-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warblader

It's made it to gizmodo!

Gizmodo - iPhone Developers Threatening Apple Over Outrageous App Payment Delays - iphone developers

Damn it you were quicker than me to post the link